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International Development Committee 

Oral evidence: Sexual exploitation and abuse in the aid sector, HC 840

Tuesday 22 May 2018

Ordered by the House of Commons to be published on 22 May 2018.

Watch the meeting 

Members present: Stephen Twigg (Chair); Mr Nigel Evans; Mrs Pauline Latham; Lloyd Russell-Moyle; Paul Scully; Henry Smith.

Questions 284 - 361

Witnesses

I: Sir Alan Parker, former Chairman of Save the Children International.

 


Examination of Witness

Witness: Sir Alan Parker.

 

Q284       Chair:  Good morning everyoneThis is a public evidence session as part of the International Development Committee’s inquiry into sexual exploitation and abuse in the aid sectorBefore we start and in the interests of transparency, I should declare that I know both Brendan Cox and Justin Forsyth.

Sir Alan, thank you for joining us here todayYou were the chairman of Save the Children International until last monthCan you tell us what your specific responsibilities were in this role regarding staff complaints and related proceedings?

Sir Alan Parker: Thank youI was indeed chairmanI have held quite a number of roles across the sector over many decadesI was very proud to be serving Save the Children, both as chairman of Save the Children UK and then later as chairman of Save the Children Association and Save the Children InternationalThey are incredibly important organisations, not just because of the important work they do for children around the world but because they should represent the best of the British aid sector, which is something we are world class atThey do an incredibly important job as an expression of the generosity and decency of this country around the world.

It is therefore deeply saddening when they fall short on any standards at all, and I am afraid we have fallen short in a number of casesThese were when I was chairman of Save the Children UKThere were apologies at the time, but I would like to take this opportunity to apologise again personally, unreservedly, and on behalf of the organisationI am not sure that apology is enoughWe have done a lot of work—I care deeply about this—to try to make sure these sorts of failings never happen againWe were dealing with issues in our head office in Clerkenwell, but there are wider issues hereThat is why I absolutely applaud the work of this Committee and the time and commitment I know you have put in to try to make sure this sector, not just Save the Children, is more robust on all of these matters. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say that up front.

Being chairman is obviously a very important role.  You are in many ways the same as any other trustee, but you do lead the boardOne of the most important things is looking at the organisation to see whether it has the right processes, whether it has the right procedures in place, and whether it can deal with things as they comeIt is not to be an executive; it is very clearly not thatIt is a governance role in that way, but it is to support the executive and, if we do not get things right, to move accordinglyThat has been the guidance I have always tried to hold as chairman of any one of the organisations within Save the Children of which I was chairman.

Q285       Chair: Did you see it as part of your role to ensure that staff members felt protected by their employer in cases of either sexual harassment or sexual abuse?

Sir Alan Parker: AbsolutelyI have to say that we put a huge amount of effort into child protection over the period of time and over the last decade that I have been involvedIn recent times, over the last few years, we have put a lot more effort into workplace conduct and the issues of sexual harassment within the organisation and how we protect and support everybody within the organisation better.

There is a very interesting wider position for the sector, which is that a lot of staff are put under extreme duress at certain times, both in terms of hard work in the office and also around the world in the field, and we absolutely have to have the highest standards in all places at all timesWe have to look at how that is doneIt is absolutely part of it.

Q286       Mrs Latham: What you say sounds absolutely rightDuring your time at Save the Children, how many allegations of sexual harassment or abuse between employees were actually brought to your attention?

Sir Alan Parker: In Save the Children UK, there were no other instances of senior issues apart from the two individuals that were mentionedThe normal issues of procedure would have been handled by HR, and I was not informed of any individual cases that were exceptional out of thatThese issues would have been handled by both HR and also the deputy COO and COO.

Q287       Mrs Latham: At what point did you become involved in the handling of the allegations against Brendan Cox and Justin ForsythI just want to say one thing about Brendan CoxHe has been through hellHe and his children have had the most terrible, terrible time, and nobody would say anything other than that, but all this happened before Jo Cox was murderedAt what time did you become involved?

Sir Alan Parker: Interestingly, when we heard the allegation against Brendan Cox—it was brought to me on 13 August 2015, I think—I realised this was extremely seriousHe was a senior member of Save the Children UKWe acted immediatelyI called a full board meeting the very next day, and involved the whole board in this subject.

I felt it was very important that we had the best independent advice on it, and we went out and sought a thirdparty law firm that had no connection with any member of the board, with me or any member of the organisation at allWe appointed a thirdparty law firm, so literally within 24 hours we were around a table discussing what we thought the right option to go forward was

We set to work to do two things about it, because it was deeply troublingOne was to have a full investigation of the events around Brendan and the reports we got, and to interrogate those reports properly to find out what the witnesses said and what the individuals involved saidIt was put to the law firm to carry that throughWe also thought it was a worryWe wondered whether it presaged some wider cultural issue there, so we asked the law firm to go and purposely do a wider cultural review of the organisation at that point.

We actually did a full staff survey with workshops and everything else, because, as a board, we approached it together; we thought it was deeply serious; we created a subcommittee to look at other issuesThe series of actions we did were immediate and very firm

Q288       Mrs Latham: What advice did your inhouse HR director give you?

Sir Alan Parker: Dealing with Brendan Cox, it was very clear that this was very seriousThere was a question raised and a complaint raised about whether the handling of Justin Forsyth was right and whether there was a wider cultural issueThe HR director absolutely got involved in those points and understood that the independent law firm was the appropriate thing to doWe also went back and looked at the learnings in respect of what we may have got wrong beforeIt was a very important step change in what we were trying to address at the time.

Q289       Mrs Latham: There was just one legal team involved at this time.

Sir Alan Parker: YesThe board wanted a thirdparty law firm that was completely unconnected and that was actually a specialist in this subject We felt these were complex issues, and we really felt we needed it.

Q290       Mrs Latham: What was the conclusion of each caseNeither employee was dismissed as a result of thisWere they issued with any formal warnings or letters of reprimand

Sir Alan Parker: Yes, absolutelyAgain, on the issue of Brendan Cox, it was very frustratingIt led to a sense of dissatisfaction and, for a lot of people, a sense that there had been a lack of closure on itThe board put in place a full disciplinary panel following that board meeting I mentionedWe created a disciplinary panel; we put two very senior trustees on it with particular experience in regulatory issuesWe put a thirdparty lawyer on itWe actually even went out and got a Queen’s Counsel and put him on itWe really felt we wanted to address this.

Q291       Mrs Latham: But was there any reprimand?

Sir Alan Parker: The problem was that before we got to the end of Brendan Cox, at the end of that process, literally before the end, he then resignedIn a way, that was very saddening because there was no closureIt was one of the reasons there has been a residue of discontent here: because people felt justice was not seen to be done

Q292       Mrs Latham: Why did you think it was appropriate to offer him a £20,000 bonus in the same year, if you really understood that this was such a serious complaintDid you think this behaviour was the sort of thing that should be rewarded?

Sir Alan Parker: I am sorryI do not think Brendan Cox was offered any bonus.

Mrs Latham: No, Justin Forsyth was

Sir Alan Parker: Oh, Justin Forsyth. He did not take a bonus of £20,000.

Q293       Mrs Latham: But you offered him one.

Sir Alan Parker: The remuneration committee was chaired by an individual who was aware of it, and it was agreed that Justin would not take the bonusThe rest of the committee was not informed of the issues with Justin in that previous case in 2012, because it had been held confidentially according to the wishes of the individuals involved at the time

Mrs Latham: Of course.

Sir Alan Parker: The wider committee did not know, but the head of the committee knew, and obviously I knewJustin Forsyth did not take that bonus at that time.

Q294       Mrs Latham: But he was offered itHe was offered a £20,000 bonus when you knew and the head of that committee knew that he was under suspicion.

Sir Alan Parker: What we knew was that it would be inappropriate for him to take itThat was expressed clearly to him, and he did not take it.

Q295       Mrs Latham: But he was offered it.

Sir Alan Parker: The HR scoring unfortunately did not take this incident into account because it was not a matter that the rest of the committee was informed of at the time.

Q296       Mrs Latham: Should they have been informed of it?

Sir Alan Parker: As long as we got the result that he did not take it—and the chairman of the committee knew and I knew—then I felt we were trying to keep it confidential, according to the wishes of the individuals involved.

Q297       Mrs Latham: Of course he would not want it to be made public, would he?

Sir Alan Parker: It was not so much publicWithin the committee at that time, I just felt that as long as the result was he did not get the bonus, that was the appropriate and important thing

Q298       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: Just to be clear, when you saythe wishes of the individuals involved”, who do you mean?

Sir Alan Parker: I mean the individuals affected by it.

Q299       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: The individuals who had been affected wanted it not to be discussed in open forums.

Sir Alan Parker: Yes, that is absolutely rightCan I make one very important pointHandling these things is a challengeWe really want to be working for a culture where people can stand upIt is very courageousIt is not easyIt is very important to be able to do thatOne of the things around that is how you can keep confidentiality for the individuals who have been affected, because it makes it much more likely that they can stand up and speak out on these issuesYou then need a robust process to deal with it, but this sense of protection and support of the individuals affected and being able to do that in privacy, or at least with confidentiality, is very important

Q300       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: It was clear that the offer of the bonus in this case was more of a technicality; the reality was that it was never really on the tableWhile the committee offered it, you effectively arranged for that to be vetoed

Sir Alan Parker: I am afraid that is right, yes.

Q301       Mr Evans: Good morning, Sir AlanDid you at any stage say to Brendan Cox that it would be in his best interests if he left Save the Children?

Sir Alan Parker: No, absolutely notIt is very saddening that we could not reach a conclusion in this case, because it was a very open subject within the organisation at this stage; an awful lot of people knew about it, going back to the shame about trying to keep these things confidentialAn awful lot of people knew about it, and it just meant that we as a board could not be seen to deliver justice appropriately. 

There was a lot of misunderstanding about how much had been doneLots of people did not fully understand about the disciplinary committee, the thirdparty lawyers and the QC investigating itWe really did think we absolutely put the most robust process inIt was very sadIt would have suited us a lot better to get to the conclusion.

Of course, at the time of his resignation, Mr Cox was still fully denying everything, and in his resignation letter was saying very clearly that he felt this was unfair and that he would not get proper justiceHe was very robust on this subject and literally just leftFrom the moment we received the report on Brendan Coxhe was away at the time, and we then moved to suspend him—he never returned to the building once during that whole process

Q302       Mr Evans: Can I turn to referencesWhat is the policy at Save the Children on giving references to individuals who leave the organisation?

Sir Alan Parker: The policy is that we do give proper, accurate and fair referencesIf there is anything that has been a formal issue and formally addressed, that is always given as part of a reference if a thirdparty asks for it

Q303       Mr Evans: Do you have a policy as well of giving a reference even if there is an investigation going into somebody and they leave the organisation before that investigation is concluded?

Sir Alan Parker: I am not technically sure, but I can come back and confirm thatI am pretty sure, if there is any formal investigation going on, that would be mentioned in the reference to the next employer, certainly if they were under one at the time.

Q304       Mr Evans: Let us just drill down a little bit further, then, because we are clearly talking about Justin Forsyth and Brendan CoxDid either of those receive an employment reference from the organisation?

Sir Alan Parker: Brendan Cox certainly did notAt the time there was no formal reference sought on Brendan, though there was a conversation with a thirdparty head-hunter about Justin Forsyth.

Q305       Mr Evans: Brendan Cox never sought a reference, and one was never offered.

Sir Alan Parker: No, not at all.

Q306       Mr Evans: Justin Forsyth did have a reference.

Sir Alan Parker: The head-hunters involved contacted my successorI am not quite sure what stage they were at, whether it was a general one or a specific oneI was not involved in that conversation.

Q307       Mr Evans: Are you aware, then, whether any mention of the sexual harassment cases was made in Justin Forsyth’s case?

Sir Alan Parker: I am pretty certain they were not because they had not been formal complaints and there was no formal process around that.

Q308       Mr Evans: What does that mean: that there was no formal process around Justin Forsyth’s case?

Sir Alan Parker: There was an informal process of mediation, which settled it, at the time satisfactorilyIn the end, we went back to doublecheck whether we had got that rightAt the time they had been satisfied with the processThere was an informal process, so it had not triggered the normal triggers for a marker in a reference

Q309       Mr Evans: There was absolutely no reference to the investigation made in the reference given to Justin Forsyth, so he was able to seek further employment without any stain on his character whatsoever.

Sir Alan Parker: It is the policy of the organisation not to mention things if they have not been subject to a formal disciplinary process

Q310       Mrs Latham: You said, Not subject to a formal disciplinary process”, but you had legal people advising youThis was not just a little chat behind closed doorsThis was pretty formal if you had a firm of solicitors working and advising you on itWhy did Save the Children not tell Unicef about Justin Forsyth’s investigation? Just because there had been no formal complaint.  That was untrue: there had been a formal complaint by somebody who had been subjected to his misdemeanours, if you likeWhy on earth do you think that was not a formal complaintSurely you should have disclosed this before.

Sir Alan Parker: The formal complaint arrived after the incidents that arose with Justin ForsythIt arrived in August, and it was really a complaint about the handling of Justin Forsyth; it was not a complaint about new misbehaviour or workplace issues on JustinIt was very clearly about the process of handling itThat was treated extremely seriously by the boardThat is part of the reason we created a subcommittee to go back and see whether there had been those problemsThat is why we established a thirdparty review by a law firm to go and look at the events back in 2012 and 2015.

Q311       Mrs Latham: When you had these lawyers, they suggested to you, I understand, that you were supposed to send Justin Forsyth a formal written warning about his behaviourIt was even drafted by them, and yet the letter does not appear on Justin Forsyth’s record and he claims he never received itWhy did you not send it to himWas it because he was a friend of yours?

Sir Alan Parker: Not at all, noWe had a package of actions to address Mr ForsythThe letter was absolutely one of them.

Q312       Mrs Latham: But you did not do it.

Sir Alan Parker: Yes, we did indeedI understand it was not in the file when they went to look for it some years later, and that I cannot account forI apologise for that.

Q313       Chair: When was that letter sent to Mr Forsyth?

Sir Alan Parker: The letter was sent in March 2012We kept copies of it, I am glad to say, but my understanding of this is that the original would have been filed with HR somewhereIt was part of a package of addressing this issue directly with Justin.

Q314       Chair: But that was not considered to be something pertinent to mention to Unicef when he was moving from Save the Children to Unicef?

Sir Alan Parker: As you say, it was not a lucid formal processIt was a process, but it did not formally trigger a formal disciplinary process, which would have been marked and kept.

Q315       Chair: On reflection, would it have been better for that to have been mentioned when he was applying to go to Unicef?

Sir Alan Parker: When I look back, there are a number of things we would have done differentlyWe would have done it in a way that would have settled it each time more appropriatelyVery clearly, there were quite specific HR failings in this, which I have to take on boardI was chairman at the timeWe did not give the individuals the right information, we did not give them the right handbooks, we did not take them to the right places on the website to look at the processes and we did not really give them the right advice on the options

There were real failings in thereUltimately, the people handling these issues at the time were very well-motivatedThey were motivated by the protection and support of the individuals who had been affectedThe fact is we did not follow the proper procedures.

Q316       Mrs Latham: In 2012, when the first complaint came in that we are talking about, you said that if anything else happened you personally would march him out of the door, so what did you do when two more people came forward in 2014What did you do then?

Sir Alan Parker: Actually, I think that comment was made by the then HR director, who was the acting HR director, a very competent personI had not heard that comment at the time.

Q317       Paul Scully: Sir Alan, do you regard yourself as having a personal relationship with either Justin Forsyth or Brendan Cox beyond being a colleague?

Sir Alan Parker: Honestly, I think I met Justin once a year beforeI really only met Justin—

Q318       Chair: A year before what?

Sir Alan Parker: I met him the year before we started the search for a new CEOThe CEO was Jasmine Whitbread, who had been an outstanding CEO at Save the Children UKShe moved across to Save the Children InternationalI think I met him a year before at somethingOtherwise, I had never met him properly before we started the search processThe search process was carried out by a big headhunting firm, and there was a committee of us.

When I did meet him and go through that—obviously Mr Forsyth had an impressive track record—we did actually hire not Justin Forsyth alone; we also hired at the same time, through that search process, a very senior lady by the name of Anabel Hoult, a woman with outstanding business credentialsShe came in as COO and deputy chief executive, so we felt we were putting in place a very strong, robust leadership team at the timeNo, I had never worked with him; he was not a friend of mineThere was nothing like that

I only met Brendan Cox when we were finalising the appointment procedures when Justin Forsyth was bringing him into the organisationI had never really known either of them; I had never worked with them before.  We had a good working relationshipIt was an organisation that was moving to deal with the big issues in the world at the time, whether they were Somalia or, increasingly, the Syrian war or any of the other big issues.  We were trying to step upYou cannot lead an organisation like this without a strong working relationship with the CEO, if you are the chairman, but it is fundamentally a professional relationship, and it was all the way through.

Q319       Paul Scully: Did you intervene in either of the cases beyond putting those things in train as you have described?

Sir Alan Parker: No, I was asked by the individuals who had been affected to be informed of it and, in both cases, I was asked personally to address Mr Forsyth to make clear how serious his failings had been in these areasOtherwise, not at all.

Q320       Paul Scully: Of course, you said you intervened with the bonus, but in terms of—

Sir Alan Parker: Yes, in that way, absolutelyI made sure that we had discussed that.

Q321       Paul Scully: Because of your close working relationship, especially with Justin Forsyth, because of the roles, did you consider standing aside at any point in the process to avoid any conflict of interest?

Sir Alan Parker: Again, as I said, I felt that the individuals who were handling it were very well-motivated, but we did have some failings thereAs chairman, because he was chief executive, I felt I should at all times put that distance in thereThat was the case in both instances where we had to step in with Justin ForsythIn the first instance I put in a very senior and experienced trustee who had had a lot of experience in HR issues particularlyThat trustee spent a lot of time with the individual affected in a guidance role to make sure everything was fairly and properly done to support the individual.

The second time I took my vice-chairman and asked them to take a role in making sure that it was settled to the satisfaction at the time of the individuals and, overall, was motivated to support the individuals who had been affected by itIn both cases, I put a trustee in as well as made sure it was dealt with by HR.

Q322       Paul Scully: Had you taken advice on that point, or was that your decision?

Sir Alan Parker: No, I just felt it was an appropriate thingFirst, I wanted people who were particularly skilled in this area, but I also felt it was appropriateThere was no question of this ever being done undercover or somethingI wanted another trustee in the room dealing with it directly, spending time with the people who had been affected and helping guide the responsible organisation.

Q323       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: Was it your role as chairman to communicate with the complainants during this process, particularly with senior staff?

Sir Alan Parker: In the two instances that took place, they both requested that I was informedIn the second instance, they also directly asked me to respond to themThey had suggestions about what they particularly wanted to settle the issue at the time.

Q324       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: Was all that communication done by writingDid some of those communications happen by telephone or inperson conversations?

Sir Alan Parker: I wrote a letter to the first individual involved at the end of the process, when Justin Forsyth wrote an apology letter to the individualI put a note with that just to make sure she sensed that at any time my door would be open if she felt in any way this was not a satisfactory position at the time or if there was anything else the organisation could do to help

Q325       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: What about the second case?

Sir Alan Parker: In the second case there were conversations and I spoke to the individuals again to ensure that they were getting what they felt was apparently at the time.

Q326       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: Did you speak to them in person or on the telephone?

Sir Alan Parker: That was a telephone call, I thinkIt was a telephone call at the end to establish that the meetings of apology had gone appropriately for themI will doublecheck that, but I am pretty certain that was it.

Q327       Mrs Latham: When the BBC was reporting that Save the Children had lied to Unicef, why did you spend charity money on two sets of expensive lawyers to shut the story down?

Sir Alan Parker: We are talking about 2018 nowThere was a lot of media interest at the time, and I felt very clearly and Save the Children UK felt very clearly that the most important thing was the accuracy of reportingAt no time have there been any lawyers’ letters trying to close a story downThere was a lot of misinformation and some seriously misleading statements around.

It is a difficult job: you have a responsibility for the reputation of the organisationOnce stories turn up in a newspaper, they can easily be repeatedWe felt very clearly that the facts should be put down by a lawyer rather than just a communications department, so that they were seen to have absolute veracity and absolute clarityThat was for the journalists and the media publicationIt was not an attempt to close anything down; it was just an attempt to make sure that the organisation was properly protected by getting the facts right

Q328       Mrs Latham: That is not how it was seenAnyway, how much did you spend on lawyersI have heard figures of over £100,000.

Sir Alan Parker: It was Save the Children UK that was doing thatI cannot verify that figureI am terribly sorryI do not know.

Chair: Pauline, we will write to Save the Children UK and ask for that figure.

Q329       Mrs Latham: We must do, because Save the Children’s website is currently asking people to donate £7 to provide warm clothing to help Afghan children and £12 a month for food sachets to feed the most malnourished childrenObviously they would not have spent money from DFID on this, because that is all trackedThe other source of income you get is from people donating by phone or however; you also have people fundraising for youIndeed, I am a former fundraiser for Save the ChildrenI have baked loads of cakes and had coffee mornings where we raised a lot of money for Save the Children.

It takes a lot of effort by people to fund that, and you have possibly spent £100,000 on this to shut the story downWhatever you say about what you were intending to do, it does not appear that that is how it was seen by the media out thereThey felt under pressure to shut the story down

Sir Alan Parker: I can absolutely understand why it could appear like thatAs soon as one says “lawyers” in these circumstances, it canI would thank you and applaud you for your support for Save the ChildrenI am absolutely one of those volunteers, too, over many years and I believe passionately in this cause.

We have to be enormously sensitive to this issue of cost in every areaWe have a lot of advisers who have worked over time pro bono in a large range of different ways hereWhen you are dealing with an organisation of this scale, and with the sensitivity and importance of this, you do have a duty to protect itFor a lot of the donors and supporters that Save the Children has, accuracy in reporting is incredibly importantI can understand that it can be portrayed as closing a story downI am not sure you can close a story downWhat you can do is try to ensure the facts are properly and fairly reportedThat was the only thingWe did feel that was absolutely in the interests of the organisation for its protection.

By “the organisation”, we also mean the terrific supporters who work absolutely tirelessly on our behalfIf it is wrongly reported, misreported and repeated again, this could be terribly damaging, and ultimately it could take real money away from children who need it mostThere is a responsibility for making sure hereThe fact is that when you are dealing with a big organisation, you do need legal advice from time to time, but you have to be careful, sparing and very thoughtful about it.

Q330       Mrs Latham: It does not sound sparing to me when we are talking about sums of over £100,000

Sir Alan Parker: I cannot confirm whether that is the accurate number, and I am very happy to help support any clarification

Q331       Chair: It would be useful to have that response, yesSir Alan, your answer raises a broader question that arose when we had Oxfam before usHave organisations like Oxfam, Save the Children and others put their own reputation ahead of the rights of those who have suffered alleged abuse or harassment“Reputation” is the word you used.

Sir Alan Parker: It is a very distinct problem for this sector, because you are absolutely right: when you rely on support, whether it is from Governments or the public, the trust in the organisation is incredibly importantWe do live in a time and a period when there is immense scrutiny on this sector and an enormous amount of interestIt is incredibly importantThe fact is that in the end you cannot put reputation—however great your responsibility is as a trustee—ahead of protecting the individuals involved, whether they are children or people in the communities in which we work or whether they are members of staff.

There is an issue about making sure that is all properly reported and where and how that is formally reported, and that is different from publicising itIt is not an easy lineIt is one of the reasons why strong boards are incredibly important, because there are judgments to make in these matters over what is and what is notAgain, this is one of the reasons you need very good advice on itUltimately, you can never put reputation ahead of dealing fully with your responsibilities for dealing with the individuals.

Ultimately, you have to have a culture where this stuff really happens and worksWhen looking at this Committee, I would hope at some stage we could put a submission in of what we have been working on in Save the Children International over the last few years, because it is a quantum change, not an incremental change.

Since 2016, we have put an absolutely firstrate chief people officer inWe have created a whole new system of safeguarding, not just for our children and beneficiaries in the field but also our staffWe have done it by working with our risk officers on fraud; we have created a system, Datix, so that now every single issue that takes place within 24 hours is reported to the country officer and up the lineEvery instance that happens, with over 20,000 people, is now reported to the chief people officer within 48 hoursWe have what I would consider a service agreement, which is that in 72 hours and by the end of that week we have it informed up the line within the organisation to the member and the donor.

This has never been possible before, but if we can really implement what we are trying to do in Save the Children International, it will lead this sectorIt is a whole new standardIt has taken an enormous amount of timeInterestingly enough, it is not a huge issue of a lot more moneyIt is actually about creating a better culture; it is about putting disciplines and training inWe have over 400 people concerned with child safeguarding and over 300 people involved with the workplaceIt is actually about creating systems that deal with it up front and address the very frontline people.

On the frontline are our country directors, which are now over 50% womenWe hope that will move to over 60% and move that all the way up the systemThis is something we have absolutely put front and centre, because of the concerns of this CommitteeThis is absolutely groundbreaking in the sectorWe are in 57 countries but, as it rolls forward, given your purview generally, I would love to make sure you had sight of thisI am obviously not part of the organisation, though.

Chair: We have certainly had evidence from Save the Children UK as part of this inquiryIf Save the Children International want to send us written evidence, it would be very helpful.

Sir Alan Parker: Thank youIt is a step change.

Q332       Henry Smith: Thank you very much, Sir Alan. There was a review that reported in 2015 into harassment at Save the Children. Who commissioned that review, who conducted it and who was it submitted to?

Sir Alan Parker: We faced two real challenges in August 2015We had the second instance of a senior individual brought to our attentionWe created a subcommittee of the board specifically to look into the previous issues and this disciplinary panel to go forward once we had established what the grounds were on Brendan CoxIt was committed by the board and, importantly, it had two direct aspects at the timeThe first was the handling in 2012 and 2015 of Justin Forsyth and any other issues that came to light around thatThe second one was cultural, because by the time we had had two instances at a senior level this was a matter of deep concern to the board.

We asked Lewis Silkin, the law firm we brought inLewis Silkin then brought in a specialist HR team to run a full staff survey and workshops within the organisationThey came back with two reportsOne was about the events of 2015 and the handling of that, which showed that we had had these failings in HR at the time, and the other one was on wider cultureWe recognised that report was very interesting on the cultural points, because on the cultural side it said we did need to have more employee engagement.

When I think back, the expression in it was “pockets” of issues around these senior individuals, but overall Save the Children was seen as having a “positive” work culture in employmentThat was quite important to us, because, given that culture clearly starts at the top, we really were concerned that this may have run more broadly.

Q333       Henry Smith: So here we are in 2018, almost three years after this review reportedDo you think it was effective in its implementation with, clearly, issues and concerns going on well past 2015?

Sir Alan Parker: Yes, I do; I really, really doIt really brought to light where we had weaknessesIt really set an agenda for usThe changes that took place in the UK were phenomenalIt also helped inform and empower a lot of what was then going to happen across the movementAs I said, we put a major focus on upgrading child safeguarding and protection, not just for the individuals we serve but for the community we work inIf you are going into a community, it is not just the individual; it is how you behave more generallyWe have put a lot of effort into thatThat review really made us pick up that.

If you look at Helle ThorningSchmidt, the chief executive of Save the Children International, and the efforts she and Janti Soeripto, her chief operating officer have put in again there, they really have focused enormously on this.  I do think that was a pivotal point

Q334       Henry Smith: Was this review across both Save the Children UK and Save the Children International?

Sir Alan Parker: The original one in the UK in 2015 was just the UK at the time

Q335       Henry Smith: Has that subsequently been rolled out to other parts of Save the Children?

Sir Alan Parker: Exactly right, yesThat was the question we asked ourselvesIt was the very same question: “If we can see it here, what do we do?”  In 2017 we did a full members audit for the first time ever, across the whole movementOne of the challenges we have is about how you put these standards in right across the movement in all the other members everywhere.  That is very much the progress we are trying to make.

We actually have a very progressive and active programme of change within SCA, which is the membership side of the 28 Save the Childrens, and within SCI, which is the programme development armBoth of those are directly driven by thatIt was a lot of work, but it did help lead to a lot of change

Q336       Mr Evans: Sir Alan, according to the Daily Mail, the law firm Harbottle & Lewis were hired by Save the Children to send multiple highly aggressive letters to news organisations on their behalf discouraging the reporting of scandals at the charityThat is Harbottle & LewisWas that your decision?

Sir Alan Parker: I was part of those decisionsThey acted for and were instructed by Save the Children UKThe representation of them as highly aggressive is a difficult interpretationThey were trying to make the facts clearer at the time.

Q337       Mr Evans: You saw those letters before they went out and you authorised them

Sir Alan Parker: I would have seen some of them, particularly the ones that related to meI do not know whether I would have seen all of them or seen all the communications by Save the Children UK to the media at that time.

Q338       Mr Evans: Do you regret now that those letters went out?

Sir Alan Parker: No, I do not think soIt was very important that the facts were put on the table and that the media deal with the facts, not just other reports

Q339       Mr Evans: It goes back to what Pauline was sayingBasically, people put the odd £1 into a collecting tin or they put £5 in a small envelope, and yet, although you cannot confirm exactly how much was paid to the law firm, that will run into thousandsWhen you are trying to protect the reputation of an organisation, do you really think that the people who put £1 or £5 in will think that is money well spent?

Sir Alan Parker: It is a judgment you have to make, on the protection pointIf really misleading comments are made in the media, and repeatedly so, it can undermine a lot of the good work that the people in Save the Children around the world are doingIt can undermine a lot of the support that everybody has put into it

Q340       Mr Evans: What was the misleading articleWhat did it say that really offended you, or was wrong?

Sir Alan Parker: There were a lot of comments around coverups and statements that simply did not meet the facts at the time, which really concerned us

Q341       Mr Evans: According to the BBC, they had a leaked document that suggested that Save the Children had failed to adequately deal with the allegationsDo you accept that?

Sir Alan Parker: We did indeed have failingsAs I have mentioned, these were very disappointingWe should have supported the HR process at the time betterThat absolutely happened while I was chair.

Q342       Mr Evans: What failings did you personally make?

Sir Alan Parker: We were all well-motivated and trying to support the individualsThe fact is, when I look back now, we would have done it differentlyIn particular, I would have pushed back and sought further advice to check on some of the procedural issuesThat was a mistake.

Q343       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: How many nondisclosure agreements have been agreed with the organisation and people leaving the organisation in the last five years?

Sir Alan Parker: I am not aware of any.

Q344       Lloyd Russell-Moyle: There are none at all.

Sir Alan Parker: I am not aware of any at all.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle: Okay, that is very positiveThank you very much

Q345       Mrs Latham: If I could go back briefly to the Lewis Silkin report, they record in the evidence that you responded to the allegations with the words, “Justin Forsyth is very important to the organisationPeople behave differently when they are abroadThey would have been tiredThey would have needed some mutual support.  That is bad enough, but then you go on to say, “What were the complainants doing by agreeing to go to his hotel room in the first place?”  Do you think they are appropriate responses from the chairman?

Sir Alan Parker: They are not actually accurateThose are a string of statements—

Q346       Mrs Latham: It is in the report

Sir Alan Parker: The report actually says that someone reported words like that in a number of casesIf I could address them directly, I would be happy toOn the first one, Mr Forsyth was important to the organisationThat does not mean he should not be dealt with properly at any stage and never did I mean thatI think a chief executive should be.

If there was any suggestion in there that I would accept lower standards of behaviour or they should be held to account in any lesser way if they are in Clerkenwell or Beirut, I absolutely do not accept that and I never have.

Q347       Mrs Latham: They were not held to account, though, were theyThey just were not held to accountYou did not even complete the findings of what was going on, because they leftYou allowed them to leave before the conclusion of the investigations, which is a very easy way to get out of it both from your point of view but from their point of view as wellDo you think it is much too easy for people to leave early and then move from charity to charity with no stain on their characterShould there not be some sort of register of people who have allegations made against them so that people can refer to thatUnicef perhaps could have looked at that and said, “We are not touching him with a bargepole”.

Sir Alan Parker: You raise a very important question about the register and what should be passed onI am aware that Kevin Watkins, the chief executive of Save the Children UK, has a very clear view that a register is important and there is a big debate about it in the sectorThat is probably rightI have also heard quite a lot of interesting advice, though, that it is not about a single set of rules that run across everything; it could well be that what we are looking for is standards of referencetaking, for instance, that would be shared more commonlyIt is not just about what is on a register, because there are a lot of legal implications in different jurisdictionsThat is one of the reasons this has been difficult to apply across the sector, which is a shame

A register sounds simple; it is quite difficult to deliverOne thing we could establish very fast is better versions of formal referencetakingThere should be formal references in a better and deeper way that could cover this sort of issueYou are absolutely right to be pressing at what a better solution to this is

Q348       Mrs Latham: It seems to me that the people involved are the people at the top, and there ought to be something very severe happening to themAfter all, the new chief executive was on the board with you, and you appointed him to be chief executiveThat sounds like quite a cosy and unusual relationshipWas there an open, advertised job interview for this person?

Sir Alan Parker: There was a very big and open process on looking for the new CEO of Save the Children UKKevin Watkins was on the board at the time and has an outstanding track record in this sectorThe board and the nominations committee were very clear about why they felt he was by far the best candidate we had, and I absolutely stood by that

Q349       Mrs Latham: Does it not smack of jobs for the boys?

Sir Alan Parker: No

Q350       Mrs Latham: It is very unusual for a board member to become chief executive.

Sir Alan Parker: It is very unusual, and the board were very aware of thatThat is why they looked at it very carefully and formallyOn the point about jobs for the boys, in the 10 years I was serving Save the Children and the different boards I chaired, we probably had 30 or so trustees appointed to those boardsI worked on one board with one of them, and I probably knew one or possibly two of the others out of that 30I would absolutely dispute any question of jobs for the boys.

Q351       Mrs Latham: I am sorry, but it sounds like itSir Alan, I have a final question for youYou are obviously an important person; you are a knight of the realmCould you tell me whether you think that an aid organisation that does not act effectively in cases of sexual harassment between staff, which clearly is the case for senior members of your organisation, is likely to have the will and mechanisms to tackle sexual exploitation and abuse in the field?

Sir Alan Parker: The sector is going through a massive challenge on this frontIt is why we have put up so much effort in Save the ChildrenAs I said, we are going through a quantum change in SCIWhether it is in the head office, where we had the problemwhich, thank heavens, did not address children or beneficiaries in that way—we are endlessly aware of it down there.

As I said, you cannot deal with this incrementallyIt does need a step change; that is absolutely what we have been trying to do in the programme of Save the ChildrenIt is the same cultural challenges in child protection as it is in the workplace and with any issues of sexual harassment or misconductIt is about having cultures where people are prepared and feel supported in standing up and speaking outThey cannot walk past it; they have to name it and call it outThey have to do so knowing that there is a system that will deliver justiceWe have got a lot further on both of those.

I cannot speak across the rest of the sector, but the work to review it is crucialIt is such an exciting and important timeWe see all the hard and dark things for this sector, but in 20 years we have halved child poverty and infant mortalityWhat a time it is to be alive.  What a time to be able to say that change for children has never been like thisWhat a great role it is for these aid organisations to play a part in that.  To do that, they really have to be up to the job at handThese are big challenges.

Q352       Mrs Latham: They have to have the trust.

Sir Alan Parker: They have to have the trustTo me, that is ultimately the key issue at handThat is terribly important

Q353       Mrs Latham: The Secretary of State is very strong on gender equality in all the programmesIs Save the Children likely to work on genderspecific issues very seriously, or are we talking about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted in the case of Save the Children?

Sir Alan Parker: It is hugely committed—absolutely hugely committedAs I said, I believe that for Save the Children UK and, most recently, in Save the Children AssociationThis is right across the movementIt is led by Helle ThorningSchmidtShe is absolutely passionate on this issueShe has a very committed COO, Janti Soeripto, who came from UnileverShe is a hugely effective operatorWe have an outstanding chief people officer, whose view is that this comes from leadershipThey are utterly committed nowI agree: if we do not regain that trust, the people who will pay for this are children in the fieldI cannot tell you how saddening I find that

Q354       Mrs Latham: The leadership was lacking before

Sir Alan Parker: Completely, and that is the only way of dealing with itThat is why now, as soon as something is reported, within 48 hours it is actually on the group chief people officer’s deskThis is a direct systemWe have to be seen to deal with it everywhere immediatelyThis is not something we can have any confusion about.

Q355       Mrs Latham: You have not just resigned as chairman; you have resigned from the board now, have you not?

Sir Alan Parker: I resigned from the board, yes.

Q356       Mrs Latham: But you went from being, as I understand it, chairman of Save the Children UKWhen all this happened, you were rewarded by leaving there and going to Save the Children International as chairman.

Sir Alan Parker: I would add a bit of chronology in thereI was asked at the beginning of 2015 to become chairman of Save the Children International after being chairman of Save the Children UKI was appointed by the board in March or April in 2015I went to the full membership—we have an annual meeting—and they supported that in June 2015The actual events with Brendan Cox were some months after that, and so was then a concern about the handling of the Justin Forsyth casesI had been appointed by the board and by the full membership.

Q357       Mrs Latham: It had been going on a very long time, thoughIt was not just at that point that it all came to lightIt had been going on for some years, and you knew about it, but you then went to Save the Children InternationalWhy is it you feel that you should resign from the whole board now if everything is so good at Save the Children?

Sir Alan Parker: Ultimately, you just raised the point: it is about trustTrust in this organisation is massively importantIf you do lead the board, it is very important that you carry the trust of the members and of all the stakeholdersWe had had a Charity Commission inquiry raised; we had issues around funding in Save the Children UKWe have a very, very strong internal agenda and programming in Save the Children Association and in Save the Children International, both of which I have been very, very committed to.

It was a very hard decisionI just felt the best thing I could do for the organisation was to put a fresh face in the role and ask them to pursue and continue that, to settle things down and keep up the momentumUltimately, it is about maintaining trust in the organisation.

Q358       Mrs Latham: The trust had been completely lost.

Sir Alan Parker: That was my fearMy fear was that we would have a breakdown of trust, and that is why I felt it was the best thing I could do for the organisation at the time

Q359       Chair: At the heart of this whole set of issues is the abuse of power, typically by men over womenSir Alan, do you think that women working for Save the Children can now feel that cases will be taken seriously in the future?

Sir Alan Parker: I profoundly hope soI completely agreeAt the heart of all these issues has been that concern about abuse of power and, as you say, it is generally in that formWhether it is in the workplace or in the field, in the communities in which we work, we just have to make sure for every individual in the organisation

I profoundly believe this is also true when we are in the communities we work inWe cannot have the trust of the communities if, when a British aid worker turns up, they are not absolutely trusted to live to the highest standardsI would hope that, through all of this and the changes we have made to the process and the culture, they do feel that profoundlyI hope they do.

Q360       Chair: Do you accept, therefore, that in the past under your chairmanship of Save the Children UK women working for Save the Children were failed?

Sir Alan Parker: They were, and I, as chairman at the time, must take responsibility for that.

Q361       Mr Evans: What damage do you think this has done to Save the Children?

Sir Alan Parker: It has raised a real issue of trustIt has done reputational damage to Save the ChildrenI would hope that people will see the huge amount of care and decency of the people in Save the Children in dealing with a difficult subjectI would hope that we would continue to carry their support, because the mistakes that were made were made with good motivation by very decent peopleWe did not get it right, but we have to show that, which is why, as chairman, I have to stand up for that one.

Chair: On that note, we draw this evidence session to a closeI thank you for giving evidence to us today.