9
Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy
Oral evidence: Societal resilience: a national conversation, HC 1841
Monday 20 April 2026
4.45 pm
Members present: Matt Western (The Chair); Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom; Liam Byrne; Sarah Champion; Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi; Lord Godson; Lord Hutton of Furness; Lord Jack of Courance; Baroness Kidron; Edward Morello; Lord Sedwill; Lord Tunnicliffe; Baroness Tyler of Enfield; Lord Watts; Sir Gavin Williamson.
Questions 1 - 9
Witness
I: Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao, Representative, Taipei Representative Office in the UK.
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao.
Q1 The Chair: Welcome to today’s meeting of the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy. Today is our first session looking at societal resilience and having a national conversation. We are delighted to be joined by Vincent Yao, a representative of the Taipei Representative Office in the UK. Representative Yao, thanks very much for joining us, and sorry for the delay in proceedings. We have a series of questions that we would like to get through in 45 minutes. We now have intelligence telling us that the next vote will be in 45 minutes or so, so we must get through before then because we do not want to cause you any more problems today. I will start our questioning. On the growth in defence spending for Taiwan, which increased in 2024 to 2.5%, can you give an idea of how much is being spent on resilience and security in Taiwan?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Our President announced that, by the end of this year, Taiwan’s defence spending will reach 3% of our total GDP and, by 2030, it will be 5% of our total GDP. Taiwan is perhaps the 20th-largest economy in the world, so 5% of its GDP is a huge amount of money, but our whole-of-society defence resilience budget comes not only from our defence budget; it also comes from the budgets of, for example, the Coast Guard Administration, the Ministry of Education or the Ministry of Economic Affairs. So, part of our defence spending will be used on strengthening our whole-of-society resilience, but not all.
The Chair: I totally understand that—it is about how it is accounted for against different budgets—but is that something that you actually extract out of budgets?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Yes.
The Chair: Would you be able to write to us separately just to identify what that figure might be as a percentage of GDP?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Yes; I will write to you with the exact percentage.
Q2 The Chair: That would be really useful to know. You just gave us a flavour of what societal resilience might look like. Can you give us a bit more depth in illustrating how Taiwan defines societal resilience?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Absolutely. For Taiwan, whole-of-society defence and resilience means that, when we encounter a major crisis—such as large-scale natural disasters, economic blockades, military conflicts or even cyber attacks on our critical infrastructure—central government, local government, providers of critical infrastructure and civil society are able to work together to cope with the crisis, endure the impact and maintain the core functions of the Government and society in order to rebuild and resume normal life after the crisis.
Since the establishment of the Whole-of-Society Defense Resilience Committee, we have been working on six key elements. The first is the command-and-control system. We want a decentralised yet unbroken command-and-control system.
The second is civilian force training and utilisation. We want to involve more and more civilian forces—not only the reserve force but volunteers, firefighters, private defence organisations and NGOs.
The third is the distribution of critical supply and the preparation of strategic materials. We want to take an inventory of our critical supply and make sure that we have a security reserve for a crisis.
The fourth is the operation and maintenance of energy and critical infrastructure. We want to make sure that these critical infrastructures keep running no matter what happens.
The fifth is the readiness of our medical care, social welfare and evacuation facilities. We also take an inventory of the number of shelters, underground facilities and evacuation facilities, as well as locations that can be available for emergency medical care, distribution stations or disaster relief stations.
Last but not least is the protection of the information, transportation and financial networks. We want to make sure that these networks continue to run when we encounter a crisis. Those are the six areas.
The Chair: We will touch on the whole-of-society committee in just a moment; Tan Dhesi is interested in asking about that specifically. In terms of the government structure to support this, one of the challenges with Governments is around the six elements that you have just described. What resilience and security look like is multifaceted. What does that structure look like within government? Are you happy with it, or is it something that you are looking to change?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: The committee was established around two years ago, in June 2024. Certainly, ever since the war in Ukraine started, our Government have sent one delegation after another to other countries to try to learn from their experience in building our own whole-of-society defence resilience. In terms of the structure of the committee, its convener is our President himself. He convenes the committee’s meetings on a monthly basis. He also includes members of the Government from different ministries, the private sector, critical industry providers and civil society leaders.
We first conducted a tabletop exercise in the same year in which the committee was established. By the end of that year, we had conducted a small tabletop exercise. The outcome was not very satisfactory; we found a lot of problems. The following year, we ran a small-scale exercise. We integrated all of the civilian defence and air raid exercises into one. We called this an urban resilience exercise; it was to start involving several city and county governments and to incorporate them into this committee and our efforts in building resilience. We discovered even more problems during that exercise.
This year, we are going to enlarge the exercise. As a matter of fact, it will happen in two days’ time, on 22 April. The first phase will involve seven counties and cities, and the exercise will go on for four months until August. In August, four more counties and cities will be involved in this exercise, and it will connect with our annual military exercise. The purpose is to verify the capability of local governments; to mobilise public and private-sector resources; to protect the general public; and, in some cases, to assist the armed forces. We will continue to regularise these exercises to build capabilities for these local governments and the providers.
The Chair: Across the six elements you just described, how do you gauge the success? How do you gauge how you are performing against each of the objectives for those six elements, because they are quite diverse?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: We have a so-called referee group to give cities and counties different grades according to their performance. We also invite envoys from other countries and international observers to observe these exercises. According to some envoys and international observers, they are very impressed by the significant strides that we have made in merely two years in preparing our ministries, local government, critical infrastructure providers and civil society to cope with a crisis, no matter whether it is a natural disaster or a national security threat. According to their observations, we have made some pretty good progress in the past two years.
Q3 Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi: Representative Yao, it is a pleasure to see you again. I am very grateful for our recent visit to Taiwan, where your good selves kindly hosted us for a week. Our British-Taiwanese All-Party Parliamentary Group managed to learn a great deal from its meetings with senior government representatives, especially regarding defence, security and our strong relationship. Since my visit to Taiwan, in 2024, you established the Whole-of-Society Defense Resilience Committee. Since it has been set up, what has it achieved?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Through several rounds of exercises, we have certainly discovered the problems. The exact purpose of this exercise is to discover problems and find solutions in real-time situations to fix these problems. We know that we will not be able to reach perfection this year or in the next few years, but the purpose is to discover these problems. We will continue to do these exercises to find best practice and to empower all stakeholders to make sure that they have the capability and resilience to cope with future crises. In the past two years, even the county governments, city governments, critical infrastructure providers and civil society have understood the shortcomings that we are facing right now. They know the importance of strengthening these capabilities. They have started to be more willing to work, both with central government and among themselves, on building this capability.
Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi: It is very good to see that President Ching-te convenes the committee himself. I understand that it meets approximately once every three months. In the UK, we have been pushing our Government, through not just the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy but our Defence Committee, to work at pace on the national conversation to make the public more aware about the threats that we face and their role within defence. How is the population of Taiwan engaged in the committee’s work? How do you go about engaging the public?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: A think tank that is affiliated to our Minister of National Defense conducted a public opinion survey with a very prestigious university in Taiwan. Around 80% of the respondents were aware of the establishment of the Whole-of-Society Defense Resilience Committee and aware of the government defence policy of increasing defence spending to 3% of GDP, but only around 30% of the respondents understood the detail and contents of the committee, including what the committee has been doing and what the defence policy is talking about. So there is a gap; we know that. Our Government plan to transform the often difficult-to-understand, very professional military jargon into easy-to-understand, more transparent and more open information for the general public so that they can more easily connect it to their daily lives.
That said, I must be honest: civilian involvement in building this resilience or participating in these exercises still needs improvement. We discovered in past exercises that even front-line medical care providers, such as doctors and nurses, are still somewhat reluctant to participate in these exercises simply because they are already very busy. There is, therefore, certainly some level of reluctance if you require them to do this, but our Government continue to engage with the general public through policy, communication and strategic messaging. We think that this is important.
Our Government have been very transparent, especially in the past two to three years, in their information on the level of threat that we face from China. Our Minister of National Defense has released on our Government’s website information about the number of Chinese jet fighters intruding into our Air Defense Identification Zone, or ADIZ, or crossing the median line of the Taiwan Strait; the number of Chinese navy and coast guard vessels operating in our contiguous zone and crossing the median line of the Taiwan Strait; and the number of cyber attacks on our critical infrastructure. We issue this information on a daily basis. We try to raise understanding about the level of the threats. Eventually, the people are also getting the signals, because they can see that the Government have been preparing to counter this crisis. This process is also about confidence-building for the general public. They are more confident when they see that the Government have been preparing and that, to some extent, they must build the capacity to help themselves during crisis.
Q4 Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi: That is good to hear. No doubt there are lessons for us to learn from that approach. Lastly, I want to come on to the differences of opinion regarding a national conversation. You will no doubt be aware that there are some people who say, “We want to discuss defence and security risks only among experts. We don’t want to discuss that in the outer world because it might create panic if people out there are aware of the risks and the threats we face”. Some of us hold a very different opinion—that we need to discuss these threats more and more to gain public buy-in. How do the Taiwanese Government balance communicating and not creating panic?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: You have visited Taiwan; many of you have done so. In Taiwan, you do not see our people panicking.
Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi: Definitely not.
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Last year, our GDP growth rate reached 8.5%, and our stock market’s total value is now seventh in the world. Our economy is still doing very strongly, so we do not think that providing transparent, open information to the general public will create panic in society. On the contrary, it is a way in which we can build trust and public confidence in the Government’s willingness and capability to prepare. Demonstrating the will to prepare is a key element of deterrence, which, in turn, is essential to preserving peace. This is a strategic message that we want to convey to the general public. We hope that, by providing them with this information, they will be aware of the level of threat, because, when you try to transform resilience to cope with a natural disaster or a national security crisis, doing so takes awareness among the general public of the level of threat.
Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi: I fully agree.
Q5 Sarah Champion: I speak as a co-chair of the British-Taiwanese All-Party Parliamentary Group. I have seen on a number of occasions how it is about not so much the resilience of the Taiwanese people but their confidence and pride that they would be ready should the worst happen. If I may be bold, you have an obvious threat across the strait. The people of Taiwan understand the immediate impact of the strait getting blocked on their livelihoods and food supply chains. In the UK, the threats to us feel more existential. Going back to my colleague Tan’s question, how should the UK build the resilience and confidence that I have seen in Taiwan?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: I am probably not in a position to say whether the UK has already built the resilience, but I believe that the UK has had resilience in the past, particularly during World War II. We have seen so many books and so much history about the UK’s resilience in fighting against adversaries. I believe that the UK has the expertise and knowledge.
In the process of Taiwan’s efforts to build whole-of-society resilience, we also seek assistance from other countries, including the United Kingdom. For example, through a global co-operation training framework, which was established by the US and Taiwan in 2015 and has been joined by many like-minded partners, including the UK, we have co-hosted many conferences, seminars and workshops on issues related to resilience, including energy resilience, telecommunication infrastructure resilience and cyber security resilience. Each and every time, the UK Government send experts or government officials to participate and share experiences to help Taiwan build resilience. I believe that there is strength and expertise in the UK.
Sarah Champion: Representative Yao, could I push you on that? I do not doubt that there are skills and expertise, but I am not seeing it be taught in our primary schools, for example. Is that the sort of thing you do?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Yes, we do that.
Q6 Lord Jack of Courance: I will try to condense these questions into one because I am conscious of time. Taiwan’s Civil Defense Handbook has had three versions in three years; I am guessing that a hard copy is distributed, with an online version. The question I would like to ask you comes in two parts: first, is it compulsory to read it? Secondly, how are you measuring or quantifying its effectiveness and cut-through with your citizens?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: The little orange book you are talking about is entitled In Case of Crisis: Taiwan’s National Public Safety Guide. It was published in September last year. We published it after learning from many countries. Apparently, it provides information and guidance to the general public to cope with crises. It also covers information that meets the different needs of different families—for example, families with elders, young kids or pets. This booklet provides information on the number of shelters near your household and where you can find the closest evacuation facility, disaster relief stations or emergency medical care stations.
It is not compulsory for people to read this little book, but we believe that most people have already read it. It has been distributed to more than 9 million households; basically, every household has at least one copy of it. The information can be accessed if the telecommunications are still on—it can be accessed through a digital platform—but, if our telecommunications are totally cut off, people still have a hard copy for reference.
Importantly, the last page of this booklet can be cut out and kept in your pocket. It is a checklist for you to prepare a go-bag, which is very important. Most importantly, when it comes to military invasion, this booklet tells people not to believe any information about the country being defeated or the Government having surrendered. It says that that is disinformation, misinformation or fake news, because the Government will continue to fight against our aggressors no matter what happens.
The Chair: Baroness Tyler, we are fearful that the votes might be coming very soon, so please keep it tight.
Q7 Baroness Tyler of Enfield: Sure. I am interested in the role that both local government and wider civil society play in all this. Can you say something about how effective the role of local government, which, I believe, is the first responder for most emergencies, is? Secondly, what role does civil society play, and, again, how effective is it—particularly in terms of engaging directly with the local population?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Thank you very much for your question. When we are trying to differentiate between coping with a natural disaster and coping with national security threats, we have to let the entire country—including local government and civil society—know that, when it comes to natural disasters, it is often the armed forces that are mobilised to assist civil society, but, when we encounter national security threats, it will usually be the other way around. The armed forces have to take care of their own business to deal with national security threats. Civil society has to take care of itself—it is on its own—or, in some cases, it has to help the armed forces. We are trying to figure out the capability of local governments to mobilise private and public sector resources, including how they can protect their own people, maintain the core function of their own governments and societies, and, in some cases, assist the armed forces.
The purpose of this exercise is to verify their capability. In the beginning, we saw some reluctance, even in the bureaucracy of local governments. Again, it is because they are very busy and are therefore unwilling to participate in these efforts. As I said, we also invite observers from the international community. We give them different ways of doing it. We made this information public, which created some peer pressure among local governments; they do not want to be seen as not preparing enough, or they want to tell their general public that they are doing a better job in preparing to respond to crises. So, in turn, this public information created some sort of pressure on these local governments. They want to do better; they want to let their people know that they are preparing for a crisis.
The Chair: We have two more areas I want to get on to before the votes come. One is information resilience; the second is economic resilience. We will start with information resilience.
Q8 Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom: I have three quick questions on disinformation. First, how do you work with civil society to counter disinformation? Secondly, how do you work with digital platforms to counter it? Thirdly, how do you balance freedom of expression and the independence of the media with countering disinformation?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: First, when it comes to civil society, Taiwan has been facing and fighting this cognitive warfare for such a long time. We call it “warfare without the smoke of gunpowder”. We have been under attack on a daily basis. Therefore, over time, the Taiwan Government have developed a working mechanism with the private sector and digital platforms. First, the Government have developed a mechanism to instruct all ministries to respond to disinformation, within two hours of it being spotted, with a small piece of information—less than 200 characters—with at least two photos, pictures, slides or whatever else can catch the attention of the audience very quickly.
We also have a strong civil society and NGOs that voluntarily verify disinformation. For example, we have the Taiwan FactCheck Center, the Doublethink Lab and MyGoPen. These NGOs are very strong. They often present a very objective verification of this information and put it on their own social media platforms for the general public. Certainly, both the Government and these NGOs are working very closely with digital platforms and multinational companies such as Meta, Google and LINE; LINE is a very popular social media platform in Taiwan. We have established dialogue with these companies and notification systems so that, once this disinformation happens, they can label it or remove it from their social platforms.
How do we balance freedom of expression and the independence of the media? It is a very tricky, difficult challenge for the Government. Right now, the efforts of the Government are in empowering the people through strengthening media literacy education. In 2019, our Ministry of Education incorporated digital information and media literacy into the 12-year basic education curriculum. In 2023, it issued the Digital Era Media Literacy Education White Paper. Right now, the focus is on not only school kids and students but the entire general public and society to make sure that they have media literacy capability. Hopefully, we will eventually have more of a balance between freedom of expression and media independence.
Q9 Lord Watts: How does Taiwan balance efficiencies with steps to reduce supply chain vulnerabilities? What role does the private sector play in that resilience?
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: That is a great question. There are two major aspects of Taiwan’s efforts. The first is upgrading our industries. Ever since the inauguration of our current President, he has announced that we are going to upgrade five of our trusted industries: semiconductors, artificial intelligence, defence, security and surveillance, and, finally, next-generation communication. Taiwan already has a strong manufacturing base, so we are going to upgrade these industries not only to create more quality jobs in our country but to take the lead in the development and upgrading of all of the manufacturing industries in Taiwan. That is the first aspect. Secondly, we diversify the risks. For example, in 2010, our investment in China constituted 83.8% of our total outbound investment, but, last year, it constituted only 3.75%. So we significantly lowered our dependence on a single market: the Chinese market.
Lord Watts: Very quickly, the President has decided that five areas need to be strengthened. They are published, then there is a detailed plan for how they will bring about the changes that are required to upgrade them.
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Yes. We are already going in that direction. Take the drone industry as an example: Taiwan has a complete supply chain in drone manufacturing, and we are now working closely with the United States. Taiwan is now the only location outside the US to certify the Green UAS drone; we have become part of the trusted supply chain.
The Chair: Unless members want to come in very briefly, I am sorry but we are going to have to suspend the sitting for votes. We have come to the end of our formal questions for you, Representative Yao. Thank you very much for your time and for being so reasonable in very difficult circumstances. That completes this session.
Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao: Thank you for having me.