Backbench Business Committee
Representations: Backbench Debates
Tuesday 5 September 2023
Ordered by the House of Commons to be published on 5 September 2023.
Members present: Ian Mearns (Chair); Bob Blackman; Kevin Foster; Patricia Gibson; Chris Green; Nigel Mills; Wendy Morton; Kate Osborne.
Questions 1-25
Representations made
I: Jim Shannon
II: Vicky Ford
III: Theo Clarke
Jim Shannon made representations.
Q1 Chair: Good afternoon and welcome to the Backbench Business Committee. We have a number of applications in front of us this afternoon, the first of which is from our season ticket holder Jim Shannon. Jim, welcome again. It is nice to see you back after the summer recess. You have an application on the subject of strengthening the contracts for difference scheme.
Jim Shannon: Mr Chairman, thank you for giving me the opportunity to come forward. This is a very specific issue, and I asked individually the right hon. and hon. Members who are supporting this application for their input because they also have an interest in this subject matter. There is one more name to add: Layla Moran MP from the Liberal Democrats. Perhaps I can read part of the application and then explain quickly what it is about. “Since its inception in 2014…Contracts for Difference…has served as the Government’s key mechanism for promoting low-carbon electricity generation while minimising costs for billpayers. The scheme has effectively provided a route to market for numerous renewable energy projects across Britain, creating green job opportunities, reducing emissions, and enhancing energy security.” All of these things are really important for renewable technologies in all regions of the United Kingdom.
My application states—this is where the issue is—that the CfD scheme “must be expanded to include access for Northern Ireland to ensure parity of access to a viable route to market, plus take account of the different economic conditions that exist in different parts of the UK”. The problem is that when it comes to money being allocated, Northern Ireland is not part of that.
The application continues, “The purpose of this debate is to highlight ways to enhance the CfD scheme’s effectiveness by enabling the full participation of all technologies across the entire United Kingdom” of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
I hope that does not sound too complex and too detailed. The simple fact is that I need this debate to tease out from Government and the Minister responsible how we can ensure that Northern Ireland can be a full and integral part of the system. I am not sure whether we need 90 minutes. Sixty minutes is probably better, although I do not know whether the Committee looks at 60-minute—
Chair: We do not have that licence, I’m afraid.
Jim Shannon: That is okay. A 90-minute one would be appropriate then. This is a very specific debate, and there is an opportunity in my constituency that I have a particular interest in. We have the potential for green energy in the tidal flows of Strangford lough in my constituency, but we have a problem getting into the system. If the CfD scheme is amended in the way we hope it will be, we in my constituency and across the whole of Northern Ireland can be part of the system. We need that help. I hope that has helped to explain.
Q2 Patricia Gibson: Jim, you are an old hand; you will know that you could get a 60-minute debate through the Table Office. I will just remind you of that.
Jim Shannon: I think originally the guys said to me that they wanted a 90-minute one, so if it is 90 minutes, we will go for it.
Chair: As you know from experience, we have specific time in the diary, and it splits into two 90-minute debates or three hours in the Chamber.
Q3 Wendy Morton: If it is a 90-minute debate, we would ideally be looking for eight names for the application. Do you think that you could get the additional names to support your application?
Jim Shannon: I left all the work over the summer, to be fair, to the admin. They sort out those who have specifically asked to be involved in this, and their names are there. Layla Moran added her name this afternoon. I am very confident that I could have a number of names specifically of those who have an interest in the matter, and I will ensure that that happens. The answer is yes.
Q4 Chair: You know how it works, Jim. Your application is in; it is a live application and you can add to it.
Jim Shannon: I will have the names before the day is out.
Q5 Bob Blackman: Can I just be clear? Which Department would be answering?
Jim Shannon: Graham Stuart—is that the Minister?
Q6 Bob Blackman: It is the answering Department. Who is put up as the Minister is up to the Department. Will it be Energy Security and Net Zero?
Jim Shannon: I think it is the net zero one; that is my understanding.
Q7 Chair: Jim, can you get a couple more signatures on your application? I am afraid to say that we have no time now before the conference recess, so it would be after that.
Jim Shannon: I always appreciate you, Chair, and the Committee giving me the chance to ask for debates. The time is up to you. Thank you very much.
Vicky Ford made representations.
Q8 Chair: Vicky next please.
Vicky Ford: I am devastated to hear what you just said, because I thought that this was the meeting at which you were allocating time for next week.
Q9 Chair: That was work that we did before the summer recess.
Vicky Ford: So that was a lack of clarity from my inquiries. Maybe that could be clarified for the future, because I inquired before recess when I needed to put in for this debate and I was told last week for next week.
The sustainable development goals are a major global issue on which the UK has led for many years. We led the work to set them up back in 2015, and they will be the topic for discussion at the UN General Assembly taking place the week after next. There has been a large amount of interest from colleagues. I only reached out to a small number of colleagues to ask if they wanted to support this, and I had a very strong hit rate—thank you to Theo for being here with me. I thought that it would be best to go for a 90-minute Westminster Hall debate to show our interest in this topic.
The tragedy of covid and continuing conflict and crisis, and then the impact of climate change, mean that so many of the development goals have been set back. The one that I have particularly focused on over many years, as has Wendy, is education. Without education, countries cannot progress into other goals, and we know that so many of our constituents, especially young constituents, care deeply about it. I was very much hoping to try to secure a 90-minute slot for next week. If that is clearly impossible, let’s come back and think if we can do this after recess. Will it at least be public before recess that the debate has been granted?
Q10 Chair: I would hope so. There is some time in the week immediately after the recess that might be possible—
Vicky Ford: I would have thought that that would be welcomed, because young people will be attending party conferences over that period and they will want to know that Members of Parliament are interested in education, in this topic, and will be very actively attending a debate. Knowing that a debate is coming up would be, I think, very worth while, and it would mean that we could respond to what had come out of the General Assembly.
It is really important, Ian, if I may say so, that we as a leading nation show to parliamentarians—especially Back-Bench parliamentarians—in other countries that we are interested in focusing on this issue and supporting it. I chair the International Parliamentary Network for Education, which has Back Benchers from over 60 different countries interested in this topic. So I do think the UK’s leadership on keeping it at the forefront and raising it from time to time is vital.
Two others have said that they want to speak and sponsor this since I put in my original list: Robin Millar and Laurence Robertson. And I am sure that I could get many more if I went out to, but I don’t want to overload inboxes. But I think this would fill a 90-minute debate nicely.
Q11 Chair: Thank you very much. Just for future reference, by and large the Committee operates with a waiting list. In other words, we have a list of applications that have been approved and are literally just waiting for time. So we always ask people to plan well ahead.
Vicky Ford: I am sorry; I had not done this before.
Q12 Patricia Gibson: I think the confusion might be because you were asked last week to put the application in for this week—to be considered this week, rather than allocated. I think that might be—
Vicky Ford: I had asked when I needed to put in in order to get a debate allocated for the week after this, but never mind—it doesn’t matter. Is there anyone next week who might swap? Probably not—it’s too late.
Q13 Chair: I think it is highly unlikely.
Vicky Ford: Okay, don’t worry, but if I could possibly be considered—if the debate has to be after UNGA, it has to be after UNGA.
Q14 Bob Blackman: In order to accommodate you, we could, potentially, give you a slot in Westminster Hall on the Thursday after we come back after conference recess, which is 19 October. The other way of doing the debate, of course, is to have a debate on what was discussed at the UN, as opposed to having the debate before the discussion at the UN.
Vicky Ford: Exactly. Is the Tuesday after that possible?
Q15 Chair: On the Tuesday after that, it would not be the right answering Department.
Vicky Ford: Oh, okay. Let’s do that, then, if it’s possible, because it would clearly be the FCDO—
Q16 Chair: For a Tuesday, there is a timetable for the answering Department, but if we put a debate on a Thursday, the answering Department has to come along.
Vicky Ford: So that is Thursday the—
Q17 Chair: It would be the 19th.
Vicky Ford: Thank you. You may get fewer colleagues on a Thursday than you would on a Tuesday—you’re the experts on this.
Chair: Sometimes it’s a struggle—at other times, not so much. It depends on the subject. Are there any further comments or questions, colleagues? No—in that case, Vicky, thank you very much.
Vicky Ford: Thank you very much.
Theo Clarke made representations.
Q18 Chair: Good afternoon and welcome. Your application is on birth trauma. Over to you, please.
Theo Clarke: Thank you very much, Chair. I recently returned from maternity leave, having given birth to my daughter. Unfortunately, I experienced a very horrific birth. I shared my story in The Times recently—in May—and nearly 400,000 mums, from across the UK, have been in touch with me since I shared my story, talking about how their aftercare needs to be improved across the UK. So I launched recently, just before recess, a new all-party parliamentary group on birth trauma. I started researching debates to speak in and was incredibly surprised to discover that in the entire history of the British Parliament, there has never been a debate on birth trauma. So this would be the first. And I have seen that there are only a few references to it in other debates, mainly focused on maternity provision and staffing and, particularly, baby loss.
I suffered what is called a third-degree tear, which is a major birth injury, and that has really not been covered at all in any debates I can find, in either Westminster Hall or the main Chamber. The co-chair of the group is Rosie Duffield MP, who would have been here today but is unfortunately unwell. She is the only person previously who has mentioned this particular issue. I would really like to do it, if possible, when we are back on the week of 10 October, because that coincides with World Mental Health Day with the World Health Organisation.
Q19 Chair: We are not back until the 16th.
Theo Clarke: That is right. Anytime will do—it is a major issue. In particular, I would like to announce the results of a major survey that I have just launched with Mumsnet. It just closed last week, and we have had over 1,000 mums in the UK respond to the survey. I would really like to share the results in the Chamber to let people know what we found.
We found that over 30,000 women in the UK currently experience birth trauma, and it is affecting around 12,000 fathers and partners. I think almost all the debates that I have previously attended have been specifically on other topics, such as, unfortunately, your baby dying after birth, or things like particular access to mental health services. This is very particularly about physical injuries in childbirth, and also the psychological trauma. To be honest, I am amazed that in 1,000 years it has never been discussed—please can this be the first time?
Q20 Bob Blackman: I have two quick questions. First, you put this down as a general debate, but have you considered having a divisible motion on the subject to encourage Government action on something?
Theo Clarke: Thank you, Mr Blackman. Yes, I have. I have spoken to the Table Office about whether I could have a substantive motion. I would like to ask the Government to do more to support women who have experienced birth trauma and ask them to implement the recommendations of the survey that we will be publishing, which I will speak about in the debate. I would be open to either.
Q21 Bob Blackman: That would then lead you to a Chamber debate, which then leads you to having a three-hour application—which also then leads you to needing another few speakers.
Theo Clarke: I would be very happy to recruit more. When I first submitted this application, you saw that I had more signatures than I needed for a 90-minute debate. Since I launched the APPG, more than 30 MPs have already contacted me to join. I am sure that I would have no problem with recruiting the other APPG members.
Q22 Wendy Morton: My question follows on from that and is around the numbers for the 90-minute debate, where we ask for eight signatures, or more if it is a Chamber debate. I can see you have a lot of names already, and it sounds encouraging with the APPG. Would you have more of a balance across the Chamber? We would generally be looking for half Government Members and, ideally, in the first instance, maybe a few more Opposition Members.
Theo Clarke: Absolutely. When I first submitted the debate, it was when the APPG was literally just being launched—it was the same week—and people such as Jess Phillips and other MPs have subsequently joined. I can provide you with a list of all the new officers; I just had to submit it before recess started.
Q23 Wendy Morton: You are confident you could add more names?
Theo Clarke: I am confident we could get more names. There are hospitals in every single constituency—
Wendy Morton: Not in mine, actually.
Theo Clarke: To give you an idea, Mumsnet told me this morning that 700 hospital trusts have been submitted to the survey. That is the type of data that I would be sharing in the debate. I am sure that most MPs will probably have one example in their patch, which I would identify to them.
Chair: Anyone else?
Q24 Kate Osborne: I do not have a question, but I wanted to welcome you back, Theo. Thank you for all the work that you did on the Women and Equalities Committee, and I wanted to say that I am so sorry to hear about your traumatic experience.
Theo Clarke: Thank you very much. I really want this debate to be about change. I had my personal experience, and then I did this interview and, to be honest, was amazed at the outpouring of mums who have written to me. I am not normally an expert on the NHS, but it is really clear that there is a huge need for this. The fact that it has never been discussed before shows that we do not have that many mums who have given birth in office. I asked the House of Commons Library, and I am only the 46th sitting MP who has given birth in office, which shows why we are not discussing topics like this. Hopefully this will be the first of many debates.
Q25 Chair: There are a number of things to do. The application is in, and it is live, but if you want to upgrade the application from a Westminster Hall debate to a Chamber debate, we need a few more signatures. You have already said that you would like a substantive motion, which would then move it up our pecking order in terms of allocating Chamber time. All of that caveated, as it were, there is a possibility that we might be able to allocate you some Chamber time on the first Thursday back after the conference recess.
Theo Clarke: That would be fantastic.
Chair: That concludes our public deliberations this afternoon. I thank you all for your attendance, and Members for making the applications. It is very much appreciated.